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The president's review of VCAT is an opportunity for the Victorian community to have your say. The president is interested in hearing your first hand experiences of coming to VCAT. You may have brought a dispute to the tribunal for resolution, or you may have been required to attend to defend your position. You may also have experience with dealing with VCAT as a support person for a family member or friend with a dispute, or even as a witness or interpreter.
In whatever way you have come into contact with VCAT's services, the president would like to know what you thought. Your experiences are a key indicator of how well VCAT is operating.
Here are some questions you might like to consider:
- What were your overall impressions of VCAT?
- Was the resolution fair and appropriate?
- Was the use of technology or alternative dispute resolution (such as mediation) useful in the resolution of your dispute?
- Was the level of customer service acceptable?
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Last Updated on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 16:49 |
Online discussion topics 
In my experience VCAT has simply become the state planning tribunal.As a objector to 3 gross over developments affecting our house in Albert Park (though not out right objection, just seeking sensible modifications), which have had many objectors and even the developers applications knocked back by the council, the developers simply do not care what the council thinks, they just take the matter straight to VCAT because they know it will get rubber stamped and approved. As a result there is no incentive for the developers to neogitate with the council to alleivate their concerns or the concerns of objectors and get the plans approved at the local council level. They may as well just submit their plans directly to VCAT and cut the council out of the whole process. Not only do VCAT all but ignore any concerns raised by objectors but they ignore concerns raised by the council - yes the body democratically elected by the residents to make such decisions on our behalf. VCAT is a loose canon out of control, not accountable to any one, let alone the local communities the are forcing their decisions on. We elect local councils to make planning decisions that effect our communities NOT VCAT.
In my experience VCAT has been exasperating. Over one year to handle compensation for poorly crafted concrete that caused a flood under the house. At a glance there was no possibility of a defence, yet we endured the process for almost a year. This gave the respondent ample time to close his business and skip. Although I may have bank details, last known address where his family still lives, it is still up to me to find him to serve a summons. I suppose I am left to go out at 2am and try and find his cement truck. Unfortunately without appropriate level of support for enforcement any victory is merely a moral victory.Interestingly the government doesnt use this same process for outstanding HECS.
Help! What is a practice day hearing? We have one this Friday regarding a huge development at the end of our street. There are only 10 homes in our cul de sac and the proposed development is for 26 three storey townhouses entered via our cul de sac. The change to our lifestyle will be enormous. We got together as a group tonight but have no idea how or what aspect we are supposed to be disputing and what is required at a practice day hearing. Apparently this same development won its case with VCAT 5 years ago - they have however submitted new plans with even more townhouses. Any advice where to head from here?!
Having participated as an objector in a VCAT hearing that commenced on 13 May and concluded on 28 May and told that a decision could take up to eight weeks, it is disappointing that almost eleven weeks later there has still been no decision forthcoming. My enquiries to VCAT have yielded little information - other than that the decision will be made at the discretion of the tribunal. There seems to be no accountability to the community.
The siting of broiler applications on blocks too small to accommodate the number of birds they aspire to means that neighbours provide more land than the growers for waste (odour and dust) disposal. As a result, unfortunate adjoining residents cannot build where they choose on their own land! In saying that the siting of a proposed house on neighbouring land could be " ... a device to thwart.." the proposed broiler farm, tribunal members referred to it being "somewhat peripatetic". I think that Aristotle would have come down on the side of logic and the poor neighbour! Let the broiler growers buy more land or have fewer - many fewer - birds .
Further to my earlier comments re broiler 'farms', there are other problems at VCAT when objectors - singly or collectively - 'lose' as usual but have grounds to appeal. Few do - the broiler industry is very aggressive and objectors including Responsible Authorities have been the target of applicants wanting costs for delays to starting production. Some have had to pay thousands of dollars - even though appeal to the Supreme Court is a legitimate part of the process. VCAT even created a precedent when they awarded costs to a non-legal consultant for the first time, I believe. Probably the serial pest referred to in an earlier comment - not by me!
I would like to support several previous comments but from a regional perspective regarding chicken-meat (broiler) 'farms'. Objectors need a right of reply or for the applicant's case to be first. Tribunal members - even legal ones - appear over-awed by the ubiquitous QC who stretches the time taken by seemingly endless monologues. He once stretched a hearing from the three days he suggested it would take to fifteen - the obvious aim being to wear out the objectors physically, emotionally and financially. Overwhelmed or pro-development members give the permit - with a raft of conditions to justify the approval, knowing the conditions won't be monitored. It appears that at VCAT money matters more than people.
Lastly, the judgement written by the member did not accurately reflect the main points of our argument. In fact, he didn't even attempt to reason through our arguments, he simply ignored them. Althoug i must congratulate him, he did make a point that both of the applicants traffic engineers did vary their figures before being cross examined. But i thought pointing out erroneous details in traffic reports were Council's responsibilty at the time of the application, and not mine at VCAT?
There is no point appealing to VCAT. As long as there is no requirement to swear on oath (hence no perjury), there will never be a fair hearing. I opposed the council once in Doncaster Hill, and they produced a false document (incomplete, no author/signature), relying heavily upon it for their case. I had the original, showed the member when it was my turn, and he simply laughed it off saying that he knew both the council's alleged author(in their submission), and, the true author. This is despite the fact that the true author had been highly critical of the proposal!!! From that point i knew i had no chance. Expert witnesses or paid consultants also need reviewing. They seem to be able to submit flawed, factually incorrect documents and still be regarded credible/reliable. The members should be forced to review the evidence before them and not place any weighting as to who authored the material. ARGUE the evidence, without bias as to who is producing it!!! In our situation, a resident was actually a traffic engineer, yet he was there as a resident!!!! So although our material was written by him, a traffic engineer, it did not hold any weight whatsoever.
The principle of VCAT is sound – the practice is grossly flawed. VCAT has all authority and no responsibility or regard to the consequences of its decisions. VCAT has created a nightmare for us by its failure to enact the legislation for which it is responsible. Council’s failure to enforce permit conditions resulted in VCAT action having to be brought by us. VCAT Orders were mediated by an unauthorized member resulting in ambiguities that are now used as an excuse for Council not to enforce anything. A VCAT review refused by council on the basis that it contravened the planning scheme was overturned by VCAT. The VCAT member was rude, aggressive, disinterested and actively prevented us from stating our case. Council continues to obfuscate, citing ambiguous VCAT Orders as a pretext for doing nothing. We are now the ones left with the responsibility of bringing further action through VCAT. It should not be left to the innocent victims of Council’s incompetence and VCAT’s failure to adequately word an Order, to bring further action. VCAT is NOT a low cost forum if there has been extensive non-compliance requiring legal representation.
I found my second last experience of VCAT good in parts. It was a domestic Building Dispute which was excessively delayed by my opponnent and VCAT did little to keep the case moving.Eventually we had a sitting on site and the matter settled thanks to very good chairmmanship by the Member. My last experience of VCAT was an unhappy one because contrary to the prediction of our Counsel and the Munipality's Counsel the Applicant was given the Permit.
If VCAT is to be the appeal body then it should not also be the planning authority. To follow the normal legal processes then the applicants should present their submission first with objectors to follow- not the other way around.
I had a case at a compulsory conference yesterday about an Owners Corporation. It settled and all parties were pleased with the outcome. As a lawyer, I found VCAT to be very legalistic & had as much if not more pleadings than other, higher Courts. I believe that all matters up to $150,000 should have an interventionist approach by the member at a very early stage. This actually happened at the Compulsory Conference.The member was a Lawyer and I had confidence in him. A non-lawyer would have found this case very confusing.
I have appeared as a resident objector at a planning hearing in December 2007 and found this hearing to be stacked against residents for similar reasons to another comment, ie need for immense legal resources or experts under the current system. In addition the Planning Minister had his legal representative make a strong statement on the first day in support of the very large development. It was a development of a size which was way out of synch with anything else in the area and the Minister's view significantly influenced the outcome. Developer Counsel then only had to "walk to the last base" after 6 days of legal niceties.
My experience with VCAT was as a objector to a car park development for a private school with an entrance via a residential street. The council planning process was transparent and efficient and took considerable time to listen to all sides to the dispute and to gather expert opinions and to get the parties together and allowed for and included VCAT mediation services. After considerable time and upon reviewing all the material, Council disallowed the development, whereupon the Developers submitted an objection to VCAT. The QC for the planners for the development were familiar with the VCAT process and the hearing was short and the Chairperson did not appear to make a real attempt to consider the residents objection, including not attending the site in question. There did not appear to be any possibility for a review of the decision of the Chairperson. Overall the VCAT process appeared to me to be unfair and inappropriate and merely a rubber stamp to Developers requirements. Other residents I have spoken with are of the same opinion and we wonder why an extensive Council planning and review process can be so easily overruled.
Hi my name is mark .My wife i and 3 kids brought a 5 acre block in a sub divion on the mornington peninsula. We applied for town planing in December 2008 still with no answer. We have been told that council are not going to grant a permit because it is in a green wedge zone . Council have oked two other people to build there houses in anther area with the same issues . Now we have be told we have to book a hearing at vcat. It is going to cast a large amount of money any alot of stress. I cant see how council can be so weak and mess with peoples lives. what waste of vcats time.Council need to stop and have good look at them self. Dont take any notice of one ceral pest who objects to eanything going
VCAT displays too many anomalies on the issue of Broiler Farm application. How can one property of 20 acres only 100 metres wide with 24 houses within 500 metre radius including a caravan park housing 35 permanent sites and with International ramsar site and Westernport Bay within 300 metres get approval and another applicant whose 55 acres with 10 houses in 500 metre radius be declined!! There seems to be no valid reason, too much emphasis on so - called experts, average person cannot afford cost of retaliative experts, applicants often present inaccurate information. VCAT refuse to see objectors property devaluation as a valid point of arguement.
My first and only appearance at VCAT was much more pleasant for me and less stressful than had been reported to me by several female friends who have also appeared. They added it probably helped that I was male. The applicant for a review provided an inadequate, one-sentence, statement of grounds, "The conditions preclude the proper & orderly planning & implementation of Glen Eira Municipal Strategy Statement." Orderly planning would suggest the developer gets correct the number of units on their application for review, and stops confusing a railway line with a kindergarten. Despite their limited grounds, we were required to speak first, which meant we had to cover a lot of technical material, since we couldn't know just how off-topic the developer would be permitted to be. The Member was very respectful and helpful, at least to me. The published decision didn't contain much of the technical material presented, so if ever it was audited (and VCAT decisions should be subject to random audit), it would be difficult to determine whether all matters required by PEA-1987 84B were taken into account.
Imagine an organisation that shows contempt for the community. That allows very large dwellings on small blocks out of character with the environment. That allows a reduction in parking, sometimes OVER 50%. That allows developers who do not live in an area to force their cheap quality profit based developments in local communities. That is what VCAT does on a regular basis and it is causing considerable stress. I asked my local council why they ignored us on a development and was told what you always tell them, with examples from one of your retired planning members. I am disgusted. Do we need to lobby Messrs Brumby and Balliu to change the law?
I have attended VCAT on three occasions and been successful in gaining judgments in my favour in all three. However, in none of the three did I ever receive any of the money awarded in my favour. This despite attempts to follow 'due process' with regards to magistrates warrants and civil warrants to seize property. In my experience, VCAT is a toothless tiger as: - there is ZERO pro-active effort made to enforce judgments. - additional avenues available to the public are at additional cost, onerous on the person making the claim, and are not effective. In short, for all three 'successful' appearances at VCAT, I was worse off in terms of time, money and frustration.
Since December 2008 I am going to VCAT regarding a Residential Tenancy Dispute. The case has being adjourned 5 times so far. My experience was and still is one of unfairness from the court member towards my case, I thought the member suppose to address the fact, but I founded to have a prejudice, and bias attitude, even with all the evidence and photographs being presented, even an independent building report. I have suffer further financial loss, because of this member inability to deal with the case and made a decision. I have loss my faith in the Australian legal system and if I could and knew it would help others in the future, I would find out if and where I could lodge a complaint about the member.
"The purpose of the president's review is to ensure that VCAT remains accessible to all Victorians and continues to resolve disputes in a low cost and flexible manner." the oximoron in this statement is the word "remains". VCAT in many cases is not low cost or flexible. it has become a haven for high priced lawyers taking on the normal person.
I agreee with Kathy, I have had mixed experiences at VCAT. My first hearing was very good, I was on my own and inexperienced and the memeber was very helpful and advisory. However since then I have had some awful members who perhaps should not have got out of bed on those mornings. Sure correct me if I have made a mistake and advise me on what to do next time, but please do not be rude and insulting or agressive. im not there to befriend the member,but I do ask for some courtesy and to be treated as a fellow human being. Its not helpful for anybody involved.
I have heard the same comments as those mentioned by Pat Pritchard where the senior member threatened to assign legal costs to the petitioner. What legal costs? This is supposed to be accessible but it is not. I think the senior members need some training in the purpose of VCAT. It seems to have strayed quite far from its stated objectives.
VCAT is an absolute Joke. There are No rights for Small Business against big companies. If you follow the 2003 Retail Tenancy Act and do exactly as the Small business commissioner Says you would think you would get your bond back. The landlord Can ignore this Act and the deadlines. Then even though they could have objected within 14 days. They dont have to Object just go to VCAT and appeal the right to terminate.
On advice from the EDO's office, I understood that the purpose of VCAT Practice Days was to resolve technical matters that may have arisen, and not when appeals would be heard. My recent experience of a Practice Day hearing was that it went much further than just resolving technical matters such as VCAT wishing to join to separate appeals into the one hearing. Instead a QC took the argument much further drawing on precedents from the past to argue financial disadvantage if the appeal was granted, plus he argued that the case against his client was weak without having to say why. The purpose of Practice Days needs to be clearer, individuals need to understand that they must be prepared to argue their case on that day otherwise they may miss the opportunity to present their arguments at a later hearing. My experience demonstrated that individuals are not dealing with a fair system.
Having appeared for my Council on numerous occasions in regard to EO's both at VCAT and MC, it would be great if VCAT was a one stop shop for such matters. Where experts could mediate, resolve, order and fine. Further that the use of amendments to existing permits as a means of circumventing enforcement cease.It is hard and long enough for councils to investigate and present, then find the matter is seemingly pushed aside with an amendment.
As with various aspects of our legal system, things do not always run according to set rules, principles and guidelines. However, as a whole, the system does not stand still but is ever evolving. This means that even when things do not run smoothly we look at what the pitfalls are and attempt to correct such faults within our system. Sometimes it may take a long time before any such correction is made. But is it not the consideration of such improvements and their implementation which will see a better system put in place? I have not had any first hand experience in dealing with VCAT but I have learnt of VCAT and it's processes through my studies. I truly believe that VCAT strives to provide a forum in which disputes, etc are resolved as speedily and smoothly as possible for all parties. Although sometimes this may only seem an ideal, it is in the acknowledgment and occurrence, that VCAT strives for a better and more friendly resolution of disputes. Is it not better to have tried and failed then not have tried at all?
many an ethnic Australian has been stuffed up by VCAT and so if you do not advertise to ethnic communities AND provide interpreters then you will yet again show your contempt for a very large part of Victoria's population
There is no guidance material on the website for the requirement to document questions for subpoenaed witnesses prior to the hearing. When I appeared at VCAT the Senior Member chastised me for not knowing this procedure and went on to empathise with the 2 witnesses who had been called, how they were very important , busy people, almost apologising to them for having to be present. I was also told by the senior member that he didn't know how wealthy I was but that my appearance at VCAT would 'break me'.
Ordinary members of the public may not realise the extent of documentation required to present their case. On the 4 occasions when I have appeared at VCAT concerning planning applications; the attitude of the chairperson has ranged from: unfriendly, agressive, impatient - to helpful, interested and patient. The objector is always asked to speak first, which puts them at a disadvantage, as the planning consultant then has the opportunity to counter any points made by the objector. The counter argument by the consultant is not always clear or accurate and is just 'political smoke and mirrors', yet the objector does not have the opportunity to debate this.